[AT] Neil Y. [Re: More on Charging Systems]

[Cecil Bearden]

My 4010 had a system like that about 20 years ago.  One of the A terminals 
was 12v+ and the other was 12v- .  It was sometimes difficult to figure it 
out.  I changed it over to a 12v starter and put an alternator on it...  It 
starts all the time now.....

Cecil in OKla
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Tallman" <dtallman at accnorwalk.com>
To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 1:45 AM
Subject: [AT] Neil Y. [Re: More on Charging Systems]


>
>
> This was actually posted by Paul B but it was in reply to Neil. Some good
> info here I've saved. I'll see if I've saved any other threads that he was
> involved in.
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:45:29 -0500
> From: Paul Bazzetta <bazzetta at execpc.com>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I)
> X-Accept-Language: en
> To: antique-tractor at atis.net
> Subject: Neil Y. [Re: More on Charging Systems]
> Sender: owner-antique-tractor at newidea.atis.net
> Reply-To: <antique-tractor at atis.net>
>
> Thanks for the info.  I've performed the first tests.  Results follow:
>
> This is on a JD 730 Diesel electric start.  This tractor has a 24 volt
> starting/charging system.
>
> More mix below.....
>
>
> NeilY99370 at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi Phil:
>> I think it was in the back of the Tractor Book.  It will be in the next
> book,
>> if I ever get it done.  (Harley-Davidson Electrics.)  I was too pooped 
>> last
>> night, but I am more or less awake this morning. Here is my system.
>>
>> You suspect that the charging system on your tractor is not working.  The
>> ammeter needle just sits there and doesn't move.
>>
>> #1 Before you start the tractor again, measure battery voltage and make a
>> note of the value.  Digital multi-testers are really nice for this.
>
> Sorry, my meter is from the old analog world.  It uses a needle and
> mirror.
>
> Across both batteries it reads as follows:
> Switch off - Batt = 25V
> Switch "I" = 25V
> Switch "L" = 24.5V (4 fender head lights & 1 rear)
> Switch "B" = 24.5V (4 fender head lights)
> Switch "D" = 24.5V (4 fender head lights dimmed)
>
>>Start
>> the tractor, run it faster than an idle and measure the voltage across 
>> the
>> battery. If it is less than the first measurement, the system is not
>> charging.  If it is higher, the system is working.  If it rises to 7 
>> volts
>> (six volt system) or 14 volts (twelve volt system) it is working 
>> properly.
>
> I started the tractor and ran it @ 400 RPM (note: the "gen" light dims
> but did not go out at 400 RPM)
>
> Across both batteries it reads as follows:
> Switch off - Batt = 25V
> Switch "I" = 25V
> Switch "L" = 25V (4 fender head lights & 1 rear)
> Switch "B" = 25V (4 fender head lights)
> Switch "D" = 25V (4 fender head lights dimmed)
>
>>
>> #2 Assuming that the voltage doesn't rise, you want to locate the
> non-working
>> component.
>>
>> Attach the jumper to the correct Multitester lead.  The red lead for
> positive
>> ground; the black lead for negative ground system.  Attach the other end 
>> of
>> the jumper to a good ground.  With the engine running at better than a 
>> fast
>> idle touch the other lead to the "A" terminal.  If the reading is one or 
>> two
>> volts, you are reading the voltage produced by residual magnetism.
>
> This is a negative ground system.  I placed the black (-) multitester
> lead on a ground and the red (+) lead on the "A1" terminal.  Reading 6.8
> Volts.
>
>>
>> Most tractors use an "A" circuit, that is the field circuit is regulated 
>> "to
>> ground."  A "B" circuit is regulated to field.  One end of the field coil 
>> is
>> grounded.  Ford or Lucas is usually "B" circuit.
>>
>> Assuming an "A" circuit, touch the grounded prod to the "F" terminal and 
>> see
>> what happens.  If the voltage begins to rise remove the prod from the "F"
>> terminal.  Don't allow the voltage to rise higher than the system. (7 or 
>> 14
>> volts)
>
>
> This is as far as I got.  I have not done this yet.  How high can I let
> it rise on this 24 v system?
>
>>
>> If the voltage rises when the prod is touching the terminal, then the
> problem
>> is in the voltage regulator.
>>
>> If no voltage is present at the initial test, polarize the generator by
>> touching the "A" terminal with a hot wire.  Try again.
>
> What would be a hot wire?
>
> The generator has the following terminals:
> "A1"
> "F"
> "A2"
> The regulator terminals are:
> "BAT"
> "ARM"
> "FLD"
>
>>
>> Still no output.  Disconnect both wires from the generator and try the 
>> test
>> again.  If you now get a reading, the chances are that the wires were
>> reversed between generator and regulator.  If still no reading, the
> generator
>> must be removed and checked.  A good generator will put out 30 volts open
>> circuit with this test.
>>
>> Most of the time regulators fail due to oxidized points. These can be
> cleaned
>> and the regulator put back in operation.
>>
>> If you suspect that the generator may be a "B" circuit and it has failed 
>> the
>> test you can run a jumper between the "A" and "F" terminal.  If the 
>> voltage
>> begins to rise, the generator is a "B" circuit and is probably all right.
> Bad
>> or wrong regulator.
>>
>> If, instead of a regulator you just have a cutout, you can still use this
>> system for testing.  If you get output when touching the grounded prod to
> the
>> "F" terminal, then something is wrong with the switch on the dash board.
>>
>> Do not run a three brush generator open circuit for more than a few 
>> seconds.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> *
>
>
>
>
>           Doug Tallman
>           dtallman at accnorwalk.com
>           VGTCOA Ohio Regional Director
>               Greenwich, OH USA
>
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