Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $

Tom Yasnowski tomyasnowski at hotmail.com
Fri Aug 12 07:12:23 PDT 2005 

Charlie,
There are companies that sells kits to do this.

Will buy Used for sure---cant afford those new truck prices. If I could I 
then should be ablr to pay those high fuel prices LOL!  Question---can 
todays late model used come with dual tanks?

Tom
>From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:06:54 -0400
>
>Ah, kind of like running an Allis WC on Kerosene.  Sounds like a good plan 
>if you can make it work.  I doubt if the truck manufacturer will  honor the 
>warranty so I guess you are planning to buy a used diesel pickup?  The 
>Dodge's with the Cummins might be a good choice.  I bet some of those 
>Cummins engines have been set up for 'multi-fuel" by the military.
>
>Charlie
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" 
><tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:53 AM
>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>
>
>>Charlie,
>>
>>There is several steps to make this happen--need seperate tank and heating 
>>system to warm it up first by running regular diesel, then switch over to 
>>the veg oil ,then before shutting down switching over tro reg diesel to 
>>clean the lines.
>>Tom
>>
>>>From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:36:53 -0400
>>>
>>>Ok Tom,
>>>
>>>I would think running straight stuff would  make for a messy engine but 
>>>what do I know?  I'm sure you have researched it.
>>>
>>>Charlie
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" 
>>><tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:06 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>
>>>
>>>>Charlie,
>>>>
>>>>Thanks--I have been to those sites.  They dont talk much about cleaning 
>>>>SVO, but foucus more on biodiesel production, which I dont want to do.  
>>>>I am thinking about running warmed waste oil thru a filter press after 
>>>>gravity filtration.  I am also considering giving it the lye treatment 
>>>>to remove FFA's
>>>>but not sure if that will be of any benefit when running SVO.
>>>>
>>>>Tom
>>>>
>>>>>From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:39:46 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom the links I just posted (previous message) will tell you how to do 
>>>>>it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Charlie
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" 
>>>>><tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>>>>>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:10 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>When my old 1992 Saturn with 170K miles on it finally bites the dust, 
>>>>>>(It still gets 35 MPG!) I am
>>>>>>going to get a diesel pickup.  Considering running straight waste 
>>>>>>vegetable oil thru it.  Till then
>>>>>>I am researching on way to get the oil extra clean; more than just 
>>>>>>using filtration. I got a couple sources for the oil, and got some 
>>>>>>ideas on how to get it really clean.
>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: John Wilkens <jwilkens at eoni.com>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:03:17 -0700
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The neighbor across the road is making his own biodiesel by 
>>>>>>>processing waste restaurant cooking oil from town to power his old 
>>>>>>>Mercedes (?) car and pickup.  Supposedly they run fine.  I've seen 
>>>>>>>his tanks but I don't know any of the process details.  But.....if 
>>>>>>>everyone in the valley starts doing this they will run out of waste 
>>>>>>>oil in a hurry! John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At 08:13 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>I agree with Cecil in part; I do think Biodiesel will be the way out 
>>>>>>>>once they figure out
>>>>>>>>how to keep it from clouding at lower temps.  The cost of Biodiesel 
>>>>>>>>today is near what regular diesel is, and the technology is 
>>>>>>>>improving all the time. Pitt univerity is patenting a way to make it 
>>>>>>>>that cut the cost considerably and reduces the hazardous waste:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_342262.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If this fuel takes off, look for canola to be the crop of choice as 
>>>>>>>>it yields much more oil that soybeans: "It contains about 40% oil 
>>>>>>>>and 23% protein compared to 20 and 40%, respectively, for soybean".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>All in all, I have faith in the enterprising spirit to come up with 
>>>>>>>>a solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>From: "Steve W." <falcon at telenet.net>
>>>>>>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:43:37 -0400
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Believe what you want, I know folks who have run alcohol in there
>>>>>>>>>engines and got half the mileage in the vehicle. I have run it in 
>>>>>>>>>race
>>>>>>>>>engines and know how much power I lost in them over gasoline as 
>>>>>>>>>well.
>>>>>>>>>  In a vehicle you need to dump 40% more alcohol through the 
>>>>>>>>>injectors to
>>>>>>>>>achieve a mix that will burn well enough to power a vehicle. Then 
>>>>>>>>>take
>>>>>>>>>into account that alcohol in an engine only produces 64% of the HP 
>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>gasoline does and you get to see the reality.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Production costs for alcohol DO get government help right now as do 
>>>>>>>>>any
>>>>>>>>>other "alternative fuels" You are also close to a production point 
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>the lack of transportation costs also keeps the price artificially 
>>>>>>>>>low.
>>>>>>>>>As does a lack of demand for alcohol as a fuel. The last 55 gallon 
>>>>>>>>>drum
>>>>>>>>>I bought cost me 213.97 + shipping.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/alcohol.htm
>>>>>>>>>http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=43492
>>>>>>>>>http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?master=1&category=1056&topic=130249&page_no=1
>>>>>>>>>http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Steve W.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "Jim and Lyn Evans" <jevans at evanstoys.com>
>>>>>>>>>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
>>>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:13 AM
>>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> > I think real mileage loss is around 25%.  Here are production 
>>>>>>>>>E85
>>>>>>>>>fuel
>>>>>>>>> > economy ratings:
>>>>>>>>> > http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > I don't buy the argument that it takes more energy to produce
>>>>>>>>>alcohol
>>>>>>>>>than
>>>>>>>>> > it returns.  That is propaganda from the oil companies.  The 
>>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>>way
>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>> > come up with that much energy is if you include the solar energy
>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>> > took to grow the corn.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > You can make the same argument with any energy source - 
>>>>>>>>>gasoline,
>>>>>>>>>diesel,
>>>>>>>>> > electricity, hydrogen, etc.  In all cases, it takes "more 
>>>>>>>>>energy" > to
>>>>>>>>>produce
>>>>>>>>> > it than it returns.  There are always inefficiencies in the
>>>>>>>>>production,
>>>>>>>>> > making the return less than 100%.  If there wasn't, then it 
>>>>>>>>>would > be a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> > perpetual motion machine.  The secret is finding a cheap,
>>>>>>>>>renewable
>>>>>>>>>fuel
>>>>>>>>> > source, and transforming it into a product that can be > 
>>>>>>>>>transported >
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>> > easily used by consumers.  If you can use natural gas, coal, or 
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>wood
>>>>>>>>>(which
>>>>>>>>> > isn't handy to use directly in a car) and a bushel of corn and
>>>>>>>>>create
>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>> > product that can be easily handled and burned in a car, then you
>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>> > something.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > The alcohol plants here are making it for about $1.29/gallon.
>>>>>>>>>That
>>>>>>>>>includes
>>>>>>>>> > the cost of the corn (which is fairly high here because of
>>>>>>>>>demand),
>>>>>>>>>and the
>>>>>>>>> > price of the natural gas (expensive) they use to make the > 
>>>>>>>>>product.
>>>>>>>>>There
>>>>>>>>> > are no government subsidies in that cost.  If it took so much >
>>>>>>>>>energy
>>>>>>>>>to make
>>>>>>>>> > it, wouldn't it cost more?
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Jim
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>>>>> > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Steve
>>>>>>>>>W.
>>>>>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:30 PM
>>>>>>>>> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Real simple. Those third world countries have VERY CHEAP labor. 
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>Most
>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>> > the fuel they produce is made in small quantities by locals and 
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>then
>>>>>>>>> > sold locally. In order to produce enough to fuel the current
>>>>>>>>>American
>>>>>>>>> > "fleet" you would need to produce more alcohol than we have the
>>>>>>>>> > materials for production. Also I don't know how you figure that
>>>>>>>>>ethanol
>>>>>>>>> > is so cheap. It isn't. Also it is a REAL mileage killer when run
>>>>>>>>> > straight in an engine. You lose half your mileage running it. If 
>>>>>>>>> >  >
>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>add
>>>>>>>>> > in ALL the costs of production for both Alcohol and for > 
>>>>>>>>>Bio-diesel >
>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>> > will also find out that it takes MORE energy to produce it than 
>>>>>>>>> > it
>>>>>>>>> > returns, they are both net energy losers.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                    In the wide-open spaces of NE Oregon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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