Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $

John Wilkens jwilkens at eoni.com
Fri Aug 12 08:01:43 PDT 2005 

Yep, that's the process my neighbor us using.  They say the by product is a 
super cleaner too.  Something that involves the glycerin.  The process is a 
lot more than just filtration.    John



At 04:39 AM 08/12/2005, you wrote:
>Tom the links I just posted (previous message) will tell you how to do it.
>
>Charlie
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" <tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:10 AM
>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>
>
>>When my old 1992 Saturn with 170K miles on it finally bites the dust, (It 
>>still gets 35 MPG!) I am
>>going to get a diesel pickup.  Considering running straight waste 
>>vegetable oil thru it.  Till then
>>I am researching on way to get the oil extra clean; more than just using 
>>filtration. I got a couple sources for the oil, and got some ideas on how 
>>to get it really clean.
>>Tom
>>
>>>From: John Wilkens <jwilkens at eoni.com>
>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:03:17 -0700
>>>
>>>The neighbor across the road is making his own biodiesel by processing 
>>>waste restaurant cooking oil from town to power his old Mercedes (?) car 
>>>and pickup.  Supposedly they run fine.  I've seen his tanks but I don't 
>>>know any of the process details.  But.....if everyone in the valley 
>>>starts doing this they will run out of waste oil in a hurry!   John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At 08:13 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>>>>I agree with Cecil in part; I do think Biodiesel will be the way out 
>>>>once they figure out
>>>>how to keep it from clouding at lower temps.  The cost of Biodiesel 
>>>>today is near what regular diesel is, and the technology is improving 
>>>>all the time. Pitt univerity is patenting a way to make it that cut the 
>>>>cost considerably and reduces the hazardous waste:
>>>>
>>>>http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_342262.html
>>>>
>>>>If this fuel takes off, look for canola to be the crop of choice as it 
>>>>yields much more oil that soybeans: "It contains about 40% oil and 23% 
>>>>protein compared to 20 and 40%, respectively, for soybean".
>>>>
>>>>All in all, I have faith in the enterprising spirit to come up with a 
>>>>solution.
>>>>
>>>>Tom
>>>>
>>>>>From: "Steve W." <falcon at telenet.net>
>>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:43:37 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>Believe what you want, I know folks who have run alcohol in there
>>>>>engines and got half the mileage in the vehicle. I have run it in race
>>>>>engines and know how much power I lost in them over gasoline as well.
>>>>>  In a vehicle you need to dump 40% more alcohol through the injectors to
>>>>>achieve a mix that will burn well enough to power a vehicle. Then take
>>>>>into account that alcohol in an engine only produces 64% of the HP that
>>>>>gasoline does and you get to see the reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>Production costs for alcohol DO get government help right now as do any
>>>>>other "alternative fuels" You are also close to a production point and
>>>>>the lack of transportation costs also keeps the price artificially low.
>>>>>As does a lack of demand for alcohol as a fuel. The last 55 gallon drum
>>>>>I bought cost me 213.97 + shipping.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/alcohol.htm
>>>>>http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=43492
>>>>>http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?master=1&category=1056&topic=130249&page_no=1
>>>>>http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve W.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Jim and Lyn Evans" <jevans at evanstoys.com>
>>>>>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:13 AM
>>>>>Subject: RE: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > I think real mileage loss is around 25%.  Here are production E85 > 
>>>>> fuel
>>>>> > economy ratings:
>>>>> > http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I don't buy the argument that it takes more energy to produce alcohol
>>>>>than
>>>>> > it returns.  That is propaganda from the oil companies.  The only way
>>>>>you
>>>>> > come up with that much energy is if you include the solar energy that
>>>>>it
>>>>> > took to grow the corn.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > You can make the same argument with any energy source - gasoline,
>>>>>diesel,
>>>>> > electricity, hydrogen, etc.  In all cases, it takes "more energy" to
>>>>>produce
>>>>> > it than it returns.  There are always inefficiencies in the
>>>>>production,
>>>>> > making the return less than 100%.  If there wasn't, then it would 
>>>>> be > a
>>>>>
>>>>> > perpetual motion machine.  The secret is finding a cheap, renewable
>>>>>fuel
>>>>> > source, and transforming it into a product that can be 
>>>>> transported > and
>>>>> > easily used by consumers.  If you can use natural gas, coal, or wood
>>>>>(which
>>>>> > isn't handy to use directly in a car) and a bushel of corn and create
>>>>>a
>>>>> > product that can be easily handled and burned in a car, then you have
>>>>> > something.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The alcohol plants here are making it for about $1.29/gallon.  That
>>>>>includes
>>>>> > the cost of the corn (which is fairly high here because of demand),
>>>>>and the
>>>>> > price of the natural gas (expensive) they use to make the product.
>>>>>There
>>>>> > are no government subsidies in that cost.  If it took so much energy
>>>>>to make
>>>>> > it, wouldn't it cost more?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Jim
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>> > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Steve W.
>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:30 PM
>>>>> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>> > Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Real simple. Those third world countries have VERY CHEAP labor. Most
>>>>>of
>>>>> > the fuel they produce is made in small quantities by locals and then
>>>>> > sold locally. In order to produce enough to fuel the current American
>>>>> > "fleet" you would need to produce more alcohol than we have the
>>>>> > materials for production. Also I don't know how you figure that
>>>>>ethanol
>>>>> > is so cheap. It isn't. Also it is a REAL mileage killer when run
>>>>> > straight in an engine. You lose half your mileage running it. If you
>>>>>add
>>>>> > in ALL the costs of production for both Alcohol and for 
>>>>> Bio-diesel > you
>>>>> > will also find out that it takes MORE energy to produce it than it
>>>>> > returns, they are both net energy losers.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
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