Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $

charlie hill chill8 at cox.net
Wed Aug 10 11:10:36 PDT 2005


Ken,

If you go down about 6 feet or so in the ground (maybe a little deeper where 
you are) the earth temperature should be a consistant 60 deg F year round 
(at least that is the number I've heard thrown around).  With low humidity 
like you have there using the earth as a chiller shouldn't be much of a 
problem.  Here we just have to figure out how to get the moisture out of the 
air.  A heat exchanger would probably be necessary.  If you tried to use air 
directly from a ground coil you might wind up with Legionaires desease in a 
year or so.

As for solar, I have an emergency AM/FM radio that has a hand crank dynamo 
in it.  It will run for half an hour on one winding of the spring.  It also 
has a small solar panel on it.  When I got the radio I took one look at the 
solar panel and laughed.  It looked fake.  It had one wire hooked to it and 
no other means to ground (mounted in clear plastic).  I never tried to use 
it on solar.  Then one day after a year or so I happened to leave the radio 
sitting in the bright sun.  I'll be darned if it didn't start to play. That 
panel is about 3"x5".

Charlie

Charlie

Charlie


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ken knierim" <wild1 at cpe-66-1-196-61.az.sprintbbd.net>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:10 PM
Subject: OT: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $


> George,
>    Not everywhere is solar such a low-density thing. Here in AZ the
> number shot around is around 1KW per square meter... if you've been here
> in the summer you know there's a lot of power in it. :) The technical
> issues with pushing it into mainstream are considerable though. My guess
> is that with the energy costs we'll see a lot more exploration into
> using it. I know I'm working on a couple of alternative fuels/energy
> projects.
>
> 1. Propane conversions for new vehicles. I'm not in the middle of this
> one but I'm doing some support for a couple of guys working out the
> software and hardware. The new vehicles have some pretty stringent
> requirements and can be very finicky about what you feed them for
> fuels... and again, sometimes they aren't. GM and Ford have been
> building a lot of vehicles that will run on ethanol/gasoline blends far
> in excess of the 85% gasoline. With the modern fuel controls, it's going
> to be a lot better than some of the previous experiences (carburetor
> conversions) and they have higher compression ratios that will take
> better advantage of the amount of energy in the ethanol. Yes, there is
> less energy available than gasoline, but if the engine isn't designed
> for the fuel you're burning, it's going to be inefficient.
>
> 2. A lot of energy goes into domestic usage (heating and cooling) and
> that CAN be directly affected by alternative sources a lot easier than
> transportation. Simple things like using a fan and bumping the A/C
> setting up a few degrees saves a LOT. Couple that to addition of
> insulation, newer windows, servicing HVAC systems and filters, and a LOT
> of energy can be saved. When I moved into my house (built in 1979, 2300
> square feet) the previous owner was paying over $600 per month for
> cooling in the summertime. Last month's bill for me, 10 years after I
> moved in and started improving things, was under $200, and energy costs
> have not gone down in the last 10 years...
>
> 3. Another idea that I'm going to attempt is a solar powered air
> conditioner. There's an experimental system being tested in several
> locations that uses low pressure water as a refrigerant. They use solar
> panels to capture the heat, boil the water and use a venturi to generate
> a pumping action that generates chilled water out the other side. My
> guess is that with a ground loop (something I've been reading about on
> this group with close and careful attention) and some controls could be
> added to the system.
>   I plan on building a carport roof this winter and making it strong
> enough to support the solar collectors on top of it. The idea is to
> generate cooling that I will be using on my shop (where I work on my
> tractors!). With a solar system it should reduce the cooling
> requirements on the main shop. I do not expect it to eliminate them by
> any stretch but knocking the edge off it is a good start. While it's not
> the do-all and end all, reducing our reliance on foreign energy is going
> to be more and more critical. I feel China is waking up and is going to
> become ravenously energy-hungry and I just don't see fuel costs ever
> coming down.
>    I've already done a few things to improve my transportation fuel
> costs. First, I don't drive my Blazer as much; only when hauling stuff
> or for recreation. I'm running a fuel injected, manual transmission
> Camaro which gets about twice the fuel mileage. Trip planning helps but
> does not eliminate driving; I commonly have 2 to 8 stops on a daily trip
> (picking up and dropping off parts, visiting customers and vendors, all
> the trappings of a small business). I also do a lot of shopping online.
>
>
> I'd like to hear of more ideas; this group is great for them.
>
> Ken
>
> Gilbert, Arizona
>
>
> On Wed, 2005-08-10 at 07:23, George Willer wrote:
>> Richard,
>>
>> I think you are right on both counts.... but solar and wind are just 
>> plain
>> silly, because of the low energy density.  The much ballyhooed hydrogen 
>> is
>> even sillier.
>>
>> Of course blended gas will produce poorer mileage.  Ethanol contains only
>> about 64% as much energy per pound as gasoline.
>>
>> The fact remains that as a country we are bleeding profusely.  We're 
>> sending
>> FAR too much of out collective wealth to the Arabs when we should be
>> producing our own energy.
>>
>> Oops... political again.
>>
>> George Willer
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "RJK.Sr" <Farmall at riverview.net>
>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>
>>
>> > Everything I've read on the subject, it take more energy to produce a
>> > gallon of ethanol then you get burning it...   Now if they used solar 
>> > or
>> > wind energy to distill ethanol, you might have something...
>> >
>> > On a recent trip west we found that gas milage suffered when using
>> > a ethanol mix,  I avoided it whenever I could...
>> >
>> > Richard
>> > West Michigan
>> >
>> > On 10 Aug 2005 at 0:13, steve sewell wrote:
>> >
>> >> George: You know, if some of that $$$$ was going to the American 
>> >> farmer
>> >> it
>> >> wouldn't hurt as bad. Why in the world we aren't burning 10% ethanol 
>> >> in
>> >> our
>> >> gas and B20 ( 20% soy ) bio-diesel is beyond me. Both are direct
>> >> replacements - no modifications required.
>> >>
>> >> - Steve
>> >>
>> >> Steve Sewell
>> >> Albany, Ohio USA
>> >> sewell at atis.net
>> >> sewell at ohio.edu
>> >>
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