SV: [AT] Back

Kessen Mattias (Road SE) mattias.kessen at ncc.se
Wed Nov 10 07:16:59 PST 2004


Welcome back!


-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: Robinson [mailto:robinson at svs.net]
Skickat: den 10 november 2004 16:00
Till: Antique tractor email discussion group
Ämne: [AT] Back


             I want to make this statement with a warning then I am ready 
to drop it. It is the end of my part of political discussion and it applies 
to supporters of BOTH political parties.
             OK, I walked away and figured I would take a few days to cool 
down. Guess what, I haven't cooled down... The more I think about it the 
angrier I get. I don't know what has been said since I left as I signed off 
right away. Spencer did cc his list message to me. Spencer is a nicer guy 
than I am. When you do things that are that much of a slap in the face to 
him as some of the spiteful crap that a few guys sneak in on this list he 
mostly just suffers in silence. He puts a LOT of work and money into 
maintaining this list and yet "some" of you repay him by "intentionally and 
knowingly" breaking the few rules he laid down. What is the point??? This 
party politics crap is just the most obvious part of it. What is the 
point??? Do you really honestly think that by posting your politics that 
you are going to convert somebody? No way in hell... What is the point??? Do 
you honestly think that you are contributing something of value to the list 
that the majority of the list wants to see? Surely you can't think that. 
What is the point???  Like I said Spencer is a nicer guy than I am. I own 
12 public list totaling around 2,000 members and I can tell you without 
hesitation that members on my lists that intentionally post stuff 
specifically forbidden (almost always politics) very suddenly find that 
they are no longer members. There is a lot more work to maintaining a busy 
list than most might think and the right of "free speech no matter what", 
does not apply to a list that I operate and work on everyday. The majority 
of list members appreciate a "clean running" list. I never, however; 
challenge a discussion that is just off topic, even way off. This list has 
gone down in membership because of the reasons Spencer outlined. Last I 
looked it was down to about 200. Much less than half of what it once was. 
One of my simple little list will soon be three times larger than this one. 
I absolutely do not tolerate party politics or any kind of bigotry on my 
lists and their membership just keeps growing. Most thinking people don't 
want it.
             I have decided that I am going to come back on the list... I 
have almost a decade here and I have decided in my angry stubbornness that 
I am not going to be crowded out. I am though going to have a new mantra - 
"on the ATIS antique tractor list we don't do politics"... A couple of you 
might say that this isn't my list and you are right. It is Spencer's list 
and he can even remove me if he chooses. It is however my list too just 
like it is your list but it is also the list of all of the other members as 
well. Like I said I have almost a decade invested in making a lot of good 
friends (and a couple of enemies) on this list. I may start making a few 
more enemies because as a concerned long time member if "any" of you keep 
posting party politics don't expect to sneak it in. Expect to find me "in 
your face" and calling you to task openly demanding to know what silly 
pompous brain fart made you think we (the rest of us) want to see it. 
Spencer got so disgusted not long ago that he even threatened to pull the 
plug if you recall. Didn't soak in at all did it. The same will apply at 
Portland. Yes, you have the right to free speech but I have the right to 
most loudly and uncivilly declare that I want no part of it from either 
side and I am going to start doing so. I had almost decided to just forget 
about Portland but I do plan to be there and in full stubborn mode. If 
anyone starts spouting their party politics in my face I may just become 
very unpleasant to be around. I do not need your leadership in political 
decisions whether I agree with you or not. I personally read, listen and 
otherwise study and make a carefully analyzed decision on my vote. I, and 
most others do not appreciate the open implication that if we disagree with 
your narrow position even a tiny bit then we must be complete fools. Most 
of you that think I need your advice would vote for Godzilla if he ran on 
your party's ticket. I don't call that thinking.
             The number of nice emails I received surprised me. Several 
indicated that they were on the verge of leaving the list because of this 
crap. Several have asked me to start an antique tractor list... I don't want 
to do that. It would be a simple thing to do but it would never be ATIS. 
There is no reason that we (the majority of list members, not necessarily 
always the most vocal) can't take hold of this list and turn it around by 
refusing to tolerate offenses as a group instead of just waiting for 
Spencer to just handle it for us. We can also help it by not jumping on the 
"me too" band wagon just because someone said something political that we 
agree with when we know deep inside that it just doesn't belong here. I was 
talking to a list member at a show this summer and he said "you know 
_________ is generally OK but gosh I wish he would drop the politics.
             I have no intention of letting the few political zealots take 
over this list and ruin it to the point that the plug gets pulled because 
of them and thus depriving me of the many good friends I have made here. If 
that means that I have to become the unofficial list bully so be it... Be 
warned...If you don't like it get over it. This list is too important to too 
many of us to let   the lack of self control of a few destroy it for everybody.
             I meant what I said when I said that several of you owed 
Spencer an apology. I hope that he received some...
             You have "my" apology Spencer if this is too far over the line.
             BTW Spencer, Thanks.

             OK, I'm done. Is anybody doing anything tractor-wise?




"farmer"

I am the list owner of the following public email lists:
Allis_Chalmers
Budget_muzzleloading
Cheap-Shelters
Cheapcomputer
Cheapcritters
CheapPower
FrugalFunWoodworking
FrugalRuralLiving
NoNonsenseHorse
Smallfarmshop
truck-blab

Some are pretty quiet, some are very busy. Member counts range from 32 to 570.
All are on Yahoo Groups and can be found with a search at:
<http://groups.yahoo.com>

Also a newly created one called "100 Acre Farming" targeting folks who 
operate farms from about 75 acres to 150 acres. Those are not iron clad 
numbers. Midwestern farms in this class require a full line of farm 
equipment unlike much smaller farms but have only a little in common with 
the much larger farms common today.


Francis Robinson
Central Indiana, USA
robinson at svs.net  


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