[AT] Back

Wed Nov 10 07:49:33 PST 2004

I really think we should stick to tractors and that means EVERYBODY.  To 
keep posting and rehashing it doesn't get anyone anywhere.  Now more people 
will want their say and it will go on and on.  JUst drop it and get back to 
TRACTORS.

My opinion

Dana

SE PA

>From: Robinson <robinson at svs.net>
>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: [AT] Back
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:59:41 -0500
>
>             I want to make this statement with a warning then I am ready 
>to drop it. It is the end of my part of political discussion and it applies 
>to supporters of BOTH political parties.
>             OK, I walked away and figured I would take a few days to cool 
>down. Guess what, I haven’t cooled down… The more I think about it the 
>angrier I get. I don’t know what has been said since I left as I signed off 
>right away. Spencer did cc his list message to me. Spencer is a nicer guy 
>than I am. When you do things that are that much of a slap in the face to 
>him as some of the spiteful crap that a few guys sneak in on this list he 
>mostly just suffers in silence. He puts a LOT of work and money into 
>maintaining this list and yet “some” of you repay him by “intentionally and 
>knowingly” breaking the few rules he laid down. What is the point??? This 
>party politics crap is just the most obvious part of it. What is the 
>point??? Do you really honestly think that by posting your politics that 
>you are going to convert somebody? No way in hell… What is the point??? Do 
>you honestly think that you are contributing something of value to the list 
>that the majority of the list wants to see? Surely you can't think that. 
>What is the point???  Like I said Spencer is a nicer guy than I am. I own 
>12 public list totaling around 2,000 members and I can tell you without 
>hesitation that members on my lists that intentionally post stuff 
>specifically forbidden (almost always politics) very suddenly find that 
>they are no longer members. There is a lot more work to maintaining a busy 
>list than most might think and the right of “free speech no matter what”, 
>does not apply to a list that I operate and work on everyday. The majority 
>of list members appreciate a “clean running” list. I never, however; 
>challenge a discussion that is just off topic, even way off. This list has 
>gone down in membership because of the reasons Spencer outlined. Last I 
>looked it was down to about 200. Much less than half of what it once was. 
>One of my simple little list will soon be three times larger than this one. 
>I absolutely do not tolerate party politics or any kind of bigotry on my 
>lists and their membership just keeps growing. Most thinking people don’t 
>want it.
>             I have decided that I am going to come back on the list… I 
>have almost a decade here and I have decided in my angry stubbornness that 
>I am not going to be crowded out. I am though going to have a new mantra - 
>“on the ATIS antique tractor list we don’t do politics”… A couple of you 
>might say that this isn’t my list and you are right. It is Spencer’s list 
>and he can even remove me if he chooses. It is however my list too just 
>like it is your list but it is also the list of all of the other members as 
>well. Like I said I have almost a decade invested in making a lot of good 
>friends (and a couple of enemies) on this list. I may start making a few 
>more enemies because as a concerned long time member if “any” of you keep 
>posting party politics don’t expect to sneak it in. Expect to find me “in 
>your face” and calling you to task openly demanding to know what silly 
>pompous brain fart made you think we (the rest of us) want to see it. 
>Spencer got so disgusted not long ago that he even threatened to pull the 
>plug if you recall. Didn’t soak in at all did it. The same will apply at 
>Portland. Yes, you have the right to free speech but I have the right to 
>most loudly and uncivilly declare that I want no part of it from either 
>side and I am going to start doing so. I had almost decided to just forget 
>about Portland but I do plan to be there and in full stubborn mode. If 
>anyone starts spouting their party politics in my face I may just become 
>very unpleasant to be around. I do not need your leadership in political 
>decisions whether I agree with you or not. I personally read, listen and 
>otherwise study and make a carefully analyzed decision on my vote. I, and 
>most others do not appreciate the open implication that if we disagree with 
>your narrow position even a tiny bit then we must be complete fools. Most 
>of you that think I need your advice would vote for Godzilla if he ran on 
>your party’s ticket. I don’t call that thinking.
>             The number of nice emails I received surprised me. Several 
>indicated that they were on the verge of leaving the list because of this 
>crap. Several have asked me to start an antique tractor list… I don’t want 
>to do that. It would be a simple thing to do but it would never be ATIS. 
>There is no reason that we (the majority of list members, not necessarily 
>always the most vocal) can’t take hold of this list and turn it around by 
>refusing to tolerate offenses as a group instead of just waiting for 
>Spencer to just handle it for us. We can also help it by not jumping on the 
>“me too” band wagon just because someone said something political that we 
>agree with when we know deep inside that it just doesn’t belong here. I was 
>talking to a list member at a show this summer and he said “you know 
>_________ is generally OK but gosh I wish he would drop the politics.
>             I have no intention of letting the few political zealots take 
>over this list and ruin it to the point that the plug gets pulled because 
>of them and thus depriving me of the many good friends I have made here. If 
>that means that I have to become the unofficial list bully so be it… Be 
>warned…If you don't like it get over it. This list is too important to too 
>many of us to let   the lack of self control of a few destroy it for 
>everybody.
>             I meant what I said when I said that several of you owed 
>Spencer an apology. I hope that he received some…
>             You have "my" apology Spencer if this is too far over the 
>line.
>             BTW Spencer, Thanks.
>
>             OK, I'm done. Is anybody doing anything tractor-wise?
>
>
>
>
>"farmer"
>
>I am the list owner of the following public email lists:
>Allis_Chalmers
>Budget_muzzleloading
>Cheap-Shelters
>Cheapcomputer
>Cheapcritters
>CheapPower
>FrugalFunWoodworking
>FrugalRuralLiving
>NoNonsenseHorse
>Smallfarmshop
>truck-blab
>
>Some are pretty quiet, some are very busy. Member counts range from 32 to 
>570.
>All are on Yahoo Groups and can be found with a search at:
><http://groups.yahoo.com>
>
>Also a newly created one called "100 Acre Farming" targeting folks who 
>operate farms from about 75 acres to 150 acres. Those are not iron clad 
>numbers. Midwestern farms in this class require a full line of farm 
>equipment unlike much smaller farms but have only a little in common with 
>the much larger farms common today.
>
>
>Francis Robinson
>Central Indiana, USA
>robinson at svs.net
>
>
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