[AT] Concrete slab

Fri Nov 26 18:51:50 PST 2004

My building experience is with homes, (maybe 100) so my pole barn was my 
first.  I considered the options and decided to NOT use concrete.  I did use 
a concrete cookie under each pole, well tamped by dropping the pole 
repeatedly so there would be no settling.   I decided against concrete for 
backfill because I felt the drainage through fine clean stone would be 
better.  This was in 1990 and I haven't seen any evidence of any pole 
moving.

By the way, I installed the pressure treated skirting and poured the floor 
before erecting the building.  This offered several advantages.  Each of 4 
slabs are 18' x 40' and a little over 4" thick and used 10 yards... just 
what one truck could haul.  My son and I prepared each slab and poured and 
finished it the same day.  It was an advantage to be able to get the truck 
in the right position and to be able to finish each slab from all four 
sides.  A nice slab in four days.  It made a good base for setting trusses, 
etc.

To make it more tractor related the grading of the sub-strate was done very 
accurately using the mid mount grader blade on a Cub.

George Willer

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "carl gogol" <cgogol at twcny.rr.com>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [AT] Concrete slab

> Nice story Cecil- Happy Thanksgiving
> I was talking to a pole barn contractor a few years ago about how he 
> backfilled the poles.  He told me that they have been back-filling with 
> Sackrete as it comes from the bag for as long as he has been in business 
> and he claims to have built around 1200 barns at the time.  I was 
> incredulous that they wouldn't take the time to mix the concrete and do a 
> real job.  He contended that it just didn't make any difference - in a 
> practical sense. He claimed that that is what has been done for pole barns 
> forever and if you ever pull out a pole it will be hard to tell that the 
> concrete wasn't mixed. [Who would know anyway?]
>
> I don't know if I believe that it doesn't make a difference, but when we 
> moved here and time came to install a mailbox, I decided to try the dry 
> technique.  I dug the holes ( two mailboxes) and leveled them with dry 
> Sackrete.  Set the posts in and poured about half of the remaining bag in 
> the hole which filled the hole about half way.  I was amazed at how easy 
> it was to square and position the posts compared to putting the freshly 
> dug material back in the hole.  Once that was done, I poured a bit of 
> water on top and checked the level again.  Satisfied, I poured the rest of 
> the Sackrete in to the top of the hole and poured a little more water on 
> top and tamped it flat with my shoe.  Expensive backfill?  Perhaps, but it 
> is a lot easier to find a few bags of Sackrete around here than 1A stone 
> or fine gravel in small quantities to do the job.  Most of the time the 
> dirt that comes out of the holes is full of fist sized stones and just 
> doesn't make good fill..  I like the fact that the concrete eventually 
> does harden and effectively makes it a much larger post in the ground that 
> will better resist any upsetting forces that might be applied to the post. 
> This makes it act like a larger post with greater holding strength.  I 
> can't help but to believe that it also protects the post from a lot of 
> boring and chewing insects that would otherwise thank you for putting that 
> post in such a convenient place for their meal.
>
> When we set the 6X6 corner and gate posts for the garden a few years 
> later, I did the same thing.  I have found it to be a easy and reliable 
> way to set posts and am glad that I have learned the trick.
> YMMV
> Carl Gogol
> Manlius, NY
> (2) AC D-14, AC 914H
> Simplicity 3112 & 7116
> Kubota F-2400
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cecil E Monson" <cmonson at hvc.rr.com>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [AT] Concrete slab
>
>
>> My father bought a 230 acre farm in 1943 with buildings that
>> were almost worthless for a mixed dairy/grain farm such as ours. We took
>> 3 years to rebuild the whole thing. We moved the house a hundred fifty
>> feet closer to the road, tore down most of the old barn and all the old
>> sheds. We dug the new basement for the house with a horse drawn scoop
>> pulled by the 9N Ford and mixed all the concrete by hand for the 
>> footings,
>> cast walls and basement floor. We also mixed all the concrete by hand
>> for new concrete floors for the barn, milk house, 2 1/2 car garage and
>> the chicken house. We build a big machine shed too but never put a
>> concrete floor in it for some reason.
>>
>> I did 90% of the mixing for the whole thing. I started out as
>> a 14 year old boy and was about 60 years old when I finished. grins.
>> Actually, it was good exercise and was not a big problem for me. Our
>> mix was almost always one scoop of Portland cement, 5 scoops of sand
>> mixed with any gravel we had, and a small pail of water. I forget now
>> how many scoops of sand and cement it took to make a batch in the
>> mixer. We had the sand on our own property at several bends in the creek
>> which ran north of the barn across the property and all the sand was
>> hauled up from the creek with the 9N Ford. The farm had two old gravel
>> pits on it and we found enough good sharp gravel in them to add to the
>> mix with the sand from the creek. Any rocks we found on the property
>> went into footings and some into the walls of the basement of the house.
>> My father said that any rocks that go into the foundation would only
>> strengthen the mix and not hurt it. He was right.
>>
>> My father was one for starting early and had my uncle there as
>> a rule to help wheel cement from the mixer where I was working to the
>> pour. He did not allow any cold joints and we worked until we got to
>> where he wanted an expansion joint even if it meant a very long day.
>> The mixer was powered by one of those little IHC engines that looks like
>> a red block. I can say this, you can pour an awful lot of concrete with
>> a mixer fed by hand if you start early and keep going. Mixers have a
>> sort of growl to them as the gears go around and I can almost still hear
>> ours running.
>>
>> I would say that mixing by hand with a gas engine powered mixer
>> is not for everyone. People nowadays don't seem to be programmed to work
>> like we did back then and want to take too many breaks. Pouring concrete
>> should go without interruption as much as possible so you don't get bad
>> spots in your pour. As to savings, I don't think we saved much money, it
>> was just that there was no other way to make concrete where we lived back
>> then. Sounds like Ralph had the same situation where he was in 
>> Saskatchewan
>> and did things the same way. I'll bet his father started early in the day
>> too......
>>
>> I agree with Bear about the use of Sakrete these days. I bought
>> a sack of it a couple years ago to make a good base for a bird feeder
>> post near the house. The salesman at the lumber yard told me to just dig
>> the hole, pour the Sakrete in dry and set the pole. He said that ground
>> moisture would do the rest without adding water. I don't know about this.
>> I tried it and it took several years for the bird feeder pole to stop
>> moving with the wind. I'd say I could have done just as well tamping the
>> ground around the pole as I did with that Sakrete. It might be set up by
>> now but I'd not bet on it.
>>
>> Cecil
>> -- 
>> The nicest thing about telling the truth is you never have to wonder
>> what you said.
>>
>> Cecil E Monson
>> Lucille Hand-Monson
>> Mountainville, New York   Just a little east of the North Pole
>>
>> Allis Chalmers tractors and equipment
>>
>> Free advice
>>
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