[Steam-engine] Boilers / Repairs

Thu Jul 15 07:33:06 PDT 2004

Well the 100 pound restriction is probably an old thing as some states have 
went to appendix C and they allow you to use .74 as the efficiency of a 
bouble riveted lap. Even the double Butt strap is only .82 so there is not 
that much difference with the triple riveted Butt strap being .88.

Our neighboring state ( Minnesota) had the 100 pound limet but now they have 
a formula to get more pressure on lap seams.

The big problem with appendix C  and the 1971 ASME code is that they really 
penilise the stayed surface area. Because there you are dealing with the 
bending stress of the sheet rather than the tensil strength. This made some 
people very unhappy as some of these fireboxes are getting pretty thin for 
various reasons. A relatively small reduction of thickness Can make a big 
difference in the final pressure

Yes, if you are thinking of buying an engine you should have access to a UT 
thickness gauge. Many times you will have a Buddy that has one, Sometimes 
you can borrow one from work :) Or you can do as I did and buy one. the most 
reasonable place I found is here.  
http://www.checkline.com/wall_thickness_gauges/index.htm  Although the Cheap 
one don't have the bells and whistles of the higher priced one it is plenty 
good for traction engine work and is easy to use. The internals of most 
traction engines resembles the landscape of the Moon anyway and it is hard 
to tell what you really have without one.... Sometimes a surface will be 
surprisingly wasted and still look smooth on the outside and sometimes a 
pitted surface will be better than you would ever geuss...

When they first started doing UT some engine owners called UT testing 
Witchcraft.... And some probably still do...

Ken Majeski, Ellsworth Wis. Case Steam Engine, Minneapolis Steam Engine, 
Rumely Oilpulls H, F, & R. Website, Http://www.pressenter.com/~kmajeski/

>From: "Dan Donaldson" <ddonaldson at tampatank.com>
>Reply-To: Steam-engine mailing list 
><steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>To: "Steam-engine mailing list" <steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>Subject: Re: [Steam-engine] Boilers / Repairs
>Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:09:05 -0400
>
>Thanks Ken,
>
>     That is the type of information and advice I was looking for. The 
>barrel
>is actually in great shape and does not need to be replaced. I was merely
>trying to determine if it would be an advantage to eliminate the lap seam
>because many states are putting such harsh restrictions on them.
>     You have brought up a good point about checking material thickness. 
>How
>can I go about checking plate thickness on a boiler I may be interested in
>buying? Will I need an ultra sound machine? If so how would I go about
>getting use of one of those?
>
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ken Majeski" <fuller_johnson1 at msn.com>
>To: <steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:18 PM
>Subject: Re: [Steam-engine] Boilers / Repairs
>
>
> > Well, Dan you asked for opinions so Here is one.
> >
> > In many states you can not alter the construction of a pressure vessel
> > without a bunch of High Tech Expensive paperwork... They can  make you
> > recalculate everything... This is the reason some people have actually
>made
> > new barrels of Butt Strap construction. I have seen one of these and it 
>is
>a
> > work of art.
> >
> > The second problem is if your state or the one you are going to has or
>will
> > adopt NBIC appendix C the stayed surface area will get you long before 
>the
> > barrel will. In short if the barrel needs replacing the rest of the 
>boiler
> > is not too far behind. For example if the stayed surface is .300 and the
> > staybolts measure 4 1/2 you will get 128 PSI... with a safety factor of 
>4.
> > So there goes your 150 right there. States can set their own safety 
>factor
> > as long as it is not less that 4. At a SF of 5 you will get 103 PSI.
> >
> > I have seen engines that have good looking staybolts and nice looking
> > straight firebox sheets that check at about .200 in the firebox area. At
> > .200 you will get about 57 PSI with a spacing of 4 1/2.
> >
> > This is the reason engines and shows seem to be jumping state lines a 
>lot
>in
> > recent years. I believe you will see a lot of ASME all welded boilers in
>the
> > next few years on the few engines that are still running.
> >
> > A guy near here spent about 8,000 on a 15/45 Case a few years ago... New
> > front flue sheet, Riveted in, Fill the pits on the barrel, all new 
>flues.
> > And Now... he has a firebox that is in the .100 range with a leak in the
> > middle of the crown sheet... :( 8,000 would have been a pretty good
> > downpayment on a new boiler....  So my Uneducated opinion is if you are
> > thinking of extensive boiler repair look the rest of it over Pretty Darn
> > Good first... And try to second geuss what your state will think up
>Next....
> > I wish you Good Luck...
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken Majeski, Ellsworth Wis. Case Steam Engine, Minneapolis Steam Engine,
> > Rumely Oilpulls H, F, & R. Website, Http://www.pressenter.com/~kmajeski/
>
>
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