[AT] OT: Thank you Farmer

Fri Aug 13 05:21:43 PDT 2004

Thanks Dudley.  The problem I had with the original message is that I
thought it meant 2 seperate, non connected grounds.  One for the phone
system and one for the house electrics.  I guess I mis-read or misunderstood
the intent of the "new code".

Charlie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dudley Rupert" <drupert at premier1.net>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 1:30 AM
Subject: RE: [AT] OT: Thank you Farmer

> Bruce,
>
> When I built here in Snohomish in 1978 I wired in a 400 amp service (two
200
> amp panels with a current transformer).  I talked with the state
electrical
> inspector before starting and he told me to tie the ground straps in the
> three panels and a ground rod together with a #2 bare copper wire and to
tie
> the ground straps and water pipes together with a #6 bare copper wire.
>
> I am just guessing here but maybe cases have occurred where the single
> ground rod failed to provide a good ground; for example, maybe because of
> extra dry dirt around the rod.  Changing the code to require a second
ground
> rod, at least 6' from the first, would reduce the chance/probability of
the
> ground straps not being at ground potential.
>
> The objective, of course, is to get the resistance between the ground
straps
> and ground as close to zero as possible.  The two ground rods act like two
> resistors in parallel.  The resistance at the ground straps would be
> R1*R2/(R1 + R2) where R1 is the resistance between one ground rod and
ground
> and R2 is the resistance between the other ground rod and rod.  Of course
> the assumption is made here that the large copper ground wire offers no
> appreciable resistance.
>
> Like I said this is just a guess and may not at all be the reason why the
> second ground rod is now required -
>
> Dudley
> Snohomish, Washington
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Fallon
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:03 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Thank you Farmer
>
>
> When my garage was built 11 years ago we had to have a bare copper ground
> lead from the panel going to 2 separate rods at least 6 feet apart it was
a
> continuous wire through the lug on the first rod and then to the second
rod.
> I also have solid wire from the panel soldered to the copper water lines
> both hot and cold which are copper all the way into the ground.
>
> Bruce Fallon
> Freeland WA. 98249
> bfallon at whidbey.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Thank you Farmer
>
>
> Karl,  Farmers check the ground advice is always a good!  Glad you found
> your problem.  I am curious about the new code requiring 2 grounds.  I'm
not
> arguing it because I don't know that much about electrical matters but I
> wish someone on the list would explain the logic of that if they know it.
>
> I have always been lead to believe that everything needed to go to a
common
> ground to prevent a situation where you have 2 different ground
potentials.
> It seems to me that 2 grounds 6 feet apart would be dangerous under the
> right conditions.  If some one understands this please explain.   I might
> need to hook a modem to my tractor some day.  grins.
>
> Charlie Hill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <HaliganBar at aol.com>
> To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:10 PM
> Subject: [AT] OT: Thank you Farmer
>
>
> > Farmer, thank you for all your help while I was troubleshooting a phone
> > problem in the house yesterday. Perhaps you are a little confused since
> this is the
> > first you've heard of any of this.
> >
> > Well, it all started when I tried to get online to check my ATIS mail.
For
> > some reason the 'puter had no dial tone. After a brief investigation I
> found
> > that the kitchen and upstairs phone had an open line and no dial tone
but
> the
> > living room phone worked fine. But, if I had one of the "dead" phones
off
> the
> > hook and picked up the living room phone then both phones would work.
> Well, I
> > checked all the wires in the basement, reseated all the connections at
the
> > network interface, and still hadn't fixed the problem. I managed to get
> online and
> > was chatting with fellow ATIS member Mike Maynard who jokingly reminded
me
> of
> > Farmer's mantra "check the grounds."
> >
> > Knowing good advice when I hear it, I ran outside and inspected the
> telephone
> > ground connection...boy, what a disaster! The telephone ground was
> attached
> > to the aluminum ground from the meter box to the ground post and the
> connection
> > was VERY corroded. Further investigation revealed the aluminum ground
wire
> > was completely corroded through where it came in contact with the earth.
I
> > trimmed back the aluminum wire, cleaned all the connections and
reattached
> > everything. I also called an electrician friend to come and replace the
> FOOLISH
> > aluminum ground wire from the meter box. Interestingly, I will now need
2
> separate
> > grounds at least 6' apart to meet the new code.
> >
> > After all of this my phone problem still persisted. A call to the phone
> > company revealed that there is a problem somewhere in the line between
my
> house and
> > the local office. I'm still amazed that they can diagnose a line problem
> from
> > their computer. Thankfully everything was repaired today.
> >
> > So, a big thank you to Farmer..if it weren't for your consistent advice
I
> > never would have found the potentially dangerous condition of my house
> ground.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Karl
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
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