[AT] Transmission/Differential Fluid
Chuck Saunders
csaunders at bv229.k12.ks.us
Fri Apr 16 11:16:29 PDT 2004
Hi Dudley,
In a gear pump the fluid is traveling around the outside of the gears.
the meshing teeth act as a seal to keep fluid from returning to the low
pressure side.
Chuck Saunders
Kansas City, MO
Dudley Rupert wrote:
>I am not sure I understand what's being said here -
>I think I hear it being said that when gear teeth are meshing under extreme
>pressure, like the bull and axle gears, then the resulting large shear
>forces require that a heavy oil, like 85W or above, be used.
>But, isn't this just a description of what a hydraulic pump is? I know the
>old John Deere hydraulic pumps are just two meshing gears of identical size
>where the tolerances between teeth and the enclosing surfaces are tight and
>thus the fluid is forced through the teeth at high pressure. The Model B
>Operators Manual calls for 20wt oil in the hydraulic system. Anyhow, I
>guess what I am not understanding is, why is light weight oil OK to
>lubricate the gears in a hydraulic pump but not OK to lubricate the tractor
>backend? Maybe another cup of coffee --
>Dudley
>Snohomish, Washington
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of charlie hill
>Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 6:47 AM
>To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>Subject: Re: [AT] Transmission/Differential Fluid
>
>
>Grant I'll take that a bit further. The "weight" of the oil, or viscosity,
>is a measure of it's resistance to shearing force. Shearing force is
>exactly what the oil sees when it is trapped between two gear teeth.
>20W just ain't gonna get the job done when the specs call for 85W-140. It
>would be kind of like substituting light weight worsted wool for leather in
>your motor cycle pants.
>
>With regard to life of the oil, foaming and other issues, I can't think of
>a tougher job for oil than hydraulic pumps or automatic transmissions. If
>being forced through a pin hole sized opening at up to 3000 psi and 300 Deg
>F won't make you foam and burn I don't know what will.
>
>Charlie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Grant Brians" <gbrians at hollinet.com>
>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 12:11 AM
>Subject: Re: [AT] Transmission/Differential Fluid
>
>
>
>
>>The old transmission fluid still works great for any applications that are
>>not Hy-Tran fluid ones. I bought a 55 gallon drum of 85W-140 a few years
>>
>>
>ago
>
>
>>and it was under $4 a gallon. Now it is probably over, but it is
>>
>>
>definitely
>
>
>>an item that moves slowly (yes, pun intended!) In any case I would
>>definitely NOT use ATF in any application that was specified as gear oil
>>originally. The reason is simple. The 85W-140 lasts essentially
>>
>>
>indefinitely
>
>
>>without breakdown. The 20W ATF is designed for relatively frequent
>>
>>
>changes.
>
>
>>Think about a car or truck that has an Automatic Transmission. It will
>>
>>
>have
>
>
>>the fluid changed at 50,000 miles typically. That is equivalent to
>>
>>
>probably
>
>
>>600-700 hours on a tractor.
>> While many antiques are no longer really worked, when I take our
>>
>>
>Olivers
>
>
>>out, they are subjected to severe service and I would not want to take a
>>chance. Second, we all eventually have some condensation in the cases of
>>these tractors. The water WILL NOT mix with the heavy gear oil at all,
>>
>>
>while
>
>
>>it might get foamed up in the light weigh oil. In short, why use the
>>
>>
>lighter
>
>
>>oil where the parts were designed for heavy oil.... On the other hand if
>>
>>
>you
>
>
>>have a "modern" hydraulic/transmission system, then you will be using
>>
>>
>hytran
>
>
>>and changing it frequently no matter what!
>> Grant Brians
>> Hollister California
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
>>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:23 PM
>>Subject: RE: [AT] Transmission/Differential Fluid
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Dudley:
>>>
>>>I don't remember the thread about using transmission fluid in place of
>>>
>>>
>>80-90
>>
>>
>>>weight Gear lube. But since I have to use so much of the 80-90W stuff
>>>
>>>
>for
>
>
>>>the large cavities in the old JD's I have searched around a bit to find
>>>
>>>
>>some
>>
>>
>>>reasonable priced stuff. The JD and Napa 80-90W oil is just too
>>>
>>>
>expensive
>
>
>>>for the quantities I needed.
>>>
>>>A few years ago I found 80-90W Gear Oil at the Costco in Yakima, WA in 5
>>>gallon containers. I immediately bought several containers. I don't
>>>
>>>
>think
>
>
>>>they sell it as 5 gallons however, I think it's by weight. Some odd
>>>
>>>
>>measure.
>>
>>
>>>I hadn't seen it at our local Costco's in Everett or Kirkland but I have
>>>since discovered it at the Mount Vernon, WA Costco which is one heck of
>>>
>>>
>a
>
>
>>>lot closer than Yakima. As I recall the container sells for $23 to $27.
>>>
>>>
>I
>
>
>>>just don't remember the exact price now. That is less than half the
>>>
>>>
>price
>
>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>JD's version. I suspect I/H dealers have a similar high price.
>>>
>>>I know this doesn't answer all of your questions but it is the most
>>>reasonably priced bulk 80-90W oil I have found locally. I have it in all
>>>
>>>
>>my
>>
>>
>>>tractors w/o any problems so far. $5 a gallon is sure better than $12 a
>>>gallon. I suppose if one bought it in a 50 gallon barrel one could do
>>>
>>>
>even
>
>
>>>better but I wasn't willing or ready to deal with those issues.
>>>
>>>Dean A. Van Peursem
>>>Snohomish, WA 98290
>>>
>>>CRS = Having a Photographic Memory but a shortage of unused film.
>>>
>>>www.deerelegacy.com
>>>
>>>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Dudley Rupert
>>>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 5:19 PM
>>>To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>Subject: [AT] Transmission/Differential Fluid
>>>
>>>I seem to recall - it has probably been a couple of years ago now - a
>>>
>>>
>>thread
>>
>>
>>>on transmission fluid versus gear lube in the transmission/differential
>>>
>>>
>of
>
>
>>>older tractors. While I know the manuals generally call for 80-90 wt
>>>
>>>
>gear
>
>
>>>lube I seem to recall that some/several on the list indicated that they
>>>
>>>
>>were
>>
>>
>>>using automatic transmission fluid instead. A couple of weeks ago I
>>>
>>>
>>drained
>>
>>
>>>the back end of a Farmall M - it definitely had thin, red looking fluid
>>>
>>>
>in
>
>
>>>it. I am now ready to refill and am thinking of using transmission
>>>
>>>
>fluid
>
>
>>>instead of gear lube. While I have drained six or seven tractors before
>>>
>>>
>I
>
>
>>>have never yet refilled with transmission fluid. So, I am curious - the
>>>last time any of you refilled the back end of an old tractor (I have a
>>>
>>>
>>T035
>>
>>
>>>so know Ferguson's need a special/unique oil), did you use transmission
>>>fluid (and if so what kind) or did you use gear lube? I don't recall
>>>
>>>
>but
>
>
>>>does anyone remember any drawbacks being noted from using transmission
>>>fluid?
>>>
>>>Thanks -
>>>Dudley
>>>Snohomish, Washington
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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