[AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number

Sat Apr 10 07:32:20 PDT 2004

Rob,  I'm starting to understand your arguement.  IF the flow to the mains
comes off of the pump ahead of the filter like the flow to the valve train
does ( I can't find that in the book and haven't gone out and checked mine
over) then ALL of the oil that drains out of the filter goes directly to the
sump.  IF that is the case then I agree that the restriction caused by the
rag filter prevents too much oil from flowing back to the sump and keeps
part of the flow under presure and going to the engine bearings.

I was thinking that the flow to the bearings came off the filter outlet but
maybe not.

Charlie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number

> Rob,  I wasn't trying to say you were wrong.  Just trying to understand
what
> you were saying.  I'm still not sure I understand how this works.  I'm
going
> to have to look at the oil piping a bit more I guess.  BTW I only use the
> real rag stuffed filters anyway.
>
> Charlie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rob Wilson" <rowilson at infinet.com>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 1:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number
>
>
> > Charlie,
> >   All the information I have tells me that these engines are bypass
> filtered
> > engines and if the filter has no backpressure then all the oil goes to
the
> > filter and not the engine. Here's a quote from one of the guys on the
A-C
> > page. I personally don't care what you or anyone else wants to use as
> > a filter to each his own. I'm merely offering information to save you a
> > few bucks.
> >
> >
> > The B (and some others like it) has a bypass type of lubrication system.
> It
> > is NOT like the typical full flow systems used on modern automobiles.
With
> a
> > bypass system, about 15% (at least on the B) of the oil pump flow is
sent
> > directly to the sump via the oil filter. That 15% does not go to the
> > bearings. There are too basic parallel paths to the sump from the pump.
> One
> > is through the bearings and the other is through the filter, assuming
the
> > relief valve is not discharging. Depending on the details of the
> > restrictions in the flow path through the filter, the filter resistance
> > itself can have an effect on the flow quantity through this bypass path.
> If
> > the filter resistance is less than designed for by the OEM (Allis
> Chalmers),
> > then a greater flow will be bypassed to the sump than originally
intended.
> > Since the pump flow is constant for any given engine speed, that means
> less
> > will be sent to the bearings. This situation results in a lower oil
> pressure
> > being observed at the pump discharge and recorded by the pressure gage.
> That
> > is the exactly the case with the newer design NAPA 1101 filter. It has a
> > lower filter resistance than AC designed for and is much more like a
> > low-resistance full flow filter that one would see on an automobile.
Dumb
> > design change by WIX (manufacturer of filters marketed under the NAPA
> brand
> > name).
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
> > To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number
> >
> >
> > > Rob,  I have a reproduction of a B manual on my desk right now.  The
oil
> > > pump has a presure regulator.  The line from the pump has a Tee in it
> > before
> > > it gets to the filter.  One outlet of the tee goes to the valve train,
> the
> > > other goes to the filter housing where the oil is pumped through the
> > center
> > > tube to the top inside of the filter where it is forced down through
the
> > > rags and then flows out to the block and the mains.   I don't
understand
> > how
> > > restricting the oil flow ahead of the filter can create more oil
presure
> > to
> > > the mains.
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Rob Wilson" <rowilson at infinet.com>
> > > To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
> > <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 11:40 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Charlie,
> > > >  The reason for the rag filled filters is not a technology
> > > > issue but a design issue. The A-C engines need back pressure
> > > > created by the filter to push oil to the mains. Without this
> > > > the oil bypasses the mains and gets filtered over and over.
> > > > As for WIX paper technology I believe they were one of the
> > > > first to use the paper element since they started in 1939.
> > > > They were a very innovative company.
> > > >
> > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Rob.  I won't argue that point with you as I don't know
anything
> > > > about
> > > > > the Wix/AC filter failures BUT one thing I will bet you is this.
> > > > > If paper filter technology had been available in 1940 AC would
have
> > > > never
> > > > > used those rag packed filters.
> > > >
> > > >
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